Comment: St. Louis Travel

We (me, wife and 6 year old daughter) just spent a weekend in St. Louis (08/2009). Took riverboat cruise and did a lot of walking downtown. Was just looking at our pictures - power plants, bridges and buildings. It was fun to compare notes with your posting.

Thanks,
John, Melanie, Ava

hey . what can we do about the bumbs at soulard market ? they freak my kids out . maybe i should not go there anymore but otherwise its a nice place ,.

dam you sure arent any help

Thank you for all your photos of old St. Louis. I stopped there on my return from Ohio June 9, 2006 as I too am quite curious about that old building. It is absolutely Gothic in appearance, dark and old and massive. I thank one of your readers, also, for the exact idenity and date of construction.

I then drove along the river to the north, along the rail line, and found a large area of abandoned warehouses. I stopped to explore, feeling a little out of place and vulnerable on foot after parking my shiny new 2007 Winnebago. But I chanced upon some friendly squatters, living inside an old rail warehouse, and they helped me finish off my remaining supply of Steel Reserve beer. It turns out they were harmless, and I was delighted to get a local history update from them.

I was somewhat amazed, however, to find that old industrial area in the about the same shape as when I lived there 37 years ago. If any readers to this site know any more about large old abandoned buildings in St. Louis, or other parts of the country, I would appreciate their input. Perhaps we could buy one, and retire in style on the river in an historic area full of flavor like old St. Louis!

Ed Moore

I liked your photos of St. Louis, I feel we have a similar interest in the city. I found your site through Google Image searches while looking for old photos of the St. Louis landing and steamships.

I arrived in the city in June of 2000 to restore my player piano in the old Buster Brown Shoe warehouse on Washington Ave. It's now been turned into something. The city museum was in the bottom of the building and I think they've taken over a few more floors. I was 18 then, just out of high school. I returned to Michigan to start and finish college. I also lived in St. Louis in the summer of 2001 for three months, working at the player piano shop again and living on Hartford St. in the old Tower Grove neighborhoods built between the 1870s and 1920s. Block after block are neat old brick city row houses. I now live in a 1910s 4-unit apartment building on Wyoming St., same neighborhood.

The reason I moved here was becuase I could buy some awesome old properties, cheap, and I hoped I could find a job that matched my skill level (I have a BA in economics), though that hasn't happened yet. I've been here since Sept. and I'm still looking. I work at the mall currently.

There are so many awesome sights in St. Louis you didn't see and so much more to know about the city. The Union Power and Light building you saw was built to provide electric power for the 1904 World's Fair in Forest Park and is still used today to generate power for some downtown buildings.

Didn't you see Union Station mall and hotel?

Damon
http://www.msu.edu/~atchiso5 - my website

Just came across your comments on St. Louis. Just to note, your original feeling about Lafayette Square was correct. The development in the square has had a huge effect on the surrounding areas in the last two years. New condo buildings are starting to go up all around the neighborhood. St. Louis as a whole is just starting to come out of its 50-year slump. The population has finally stabilized, and 1000's of new units of housing are being built, or are planned in the downtown area. Massive new developments are planned for north and south of downtown including a 6-block stretch that is being designed by Daniel Libeskind. This six-block stretch will be an area that you have pictured in the section you devote to your 2000 visit. The photo called "Old Factory", is this area. The Central West End has at least four new highrises that are either under construction or in the works, and even more rehab work being done. In terms of new restaurants, dozens of new restaurants have opened in the last 2 years. While St. Louis is not New York or San Francisco, it is coming out of its slump and is reforming its image to just be St. Louis. You should come back in a year or two and things will be even better.

Hello-
I just read your website on your visit to St. Louis. Actually, I didn't read all of it, I cached to Shu Feng because they are one of my clients. I work for the Riverfront Times and wanted to offer you a suggestion, please revisit Shu Feng. No, In Soo no longer owns it, which is for the best. Leling is the new owner and her food is absolutely amazing (and I'm not just saing that because she is my client, she has no idea I am writing you this). Next time you visit St. Louis, please, revisit Shu Feng and update your website. You will be more than pleasantly surprised!

Sarah E. Purdy
Retail Account Executive, St. Louis Riverfront Times
(314) 754-5980 direct
(314) 807-2729 mobil
(314) 754-5955 fax

Your STL essay was funny as hell. How ironic too, that you have proven yourself to be about as ignorant and sheltered as you consider St. Louisans to be. St. Louis is a metropolitan area of nearly 2.8 million people. You couldn't possibly explore everything in a single weekend. It's a shame you missed the bustle of Soulard Market on Saturday morning and the wonderfully historic neighborhoods that surround it. Sorry you passed up the ethnic melting pot of South Grand and the stately Victorians of Lafayette Square. Sucks for you that you didn't get to sample some of the finest Italian cuisine in North America in our beloved Hill neighborhood. Basically you did the typical touristy crap with a sorry-ass detour through some blighted neighborhoods in between (as if every major city doesn't have crappy, abandoned neighborhoods).

Nonetheless, it is ultimately your loss that you didn't explore and enjoy STL to the fullest. We St. Louisans aren't impressed because you come from a more popular city than we do. We love our well-kept secret. It may do you some good to keep an open mind when visiting other cities. After all, it's you who sounds like a snotty "yuppie" when you pompously assume that you experienced all there is to do in St. Louis in one visit. There's a bigger world out there, you should come out of your West Coast-minded bubble. And come on-- how ridiculous is it that you poke fun of the Central West End as being overrun with yuppies when you hail from San Francisco-- Ground Zero for yuppie, SUV-driving, trend-seekers.

It's also funny that apparently unbeknownst to you, St. Louis was a huge thriving city at the turn of the 20th Century when San Francisco was a little bump in the road where the horses stopped to take a piss. Respect your elders!

Randy V.

From: Randy Vines
Date: 2003 Sep 15
Subj: Re: St. Louis

Larry, once more you have amused me with your responses to my comments about your STL diary. To tell you the truth, it didn't take me very long to read through your condescending bullshit. I love the way you talk about how St. Louis actually has "lawns," as if you've never seen them before. I've been to San Fran, and I know you have lawns there too.

Your positive comments about STL seem rather patronizing, and I think your tone sounds as if you think you're holier-than-thou because you're not a Midwesterner.

What was that comment about white trash and stretch fabric prints on the Metro? I'm disappointed. I'm sure if you're looking to insult, you can do better than that. St. Louis is rugged and raw, moreso than many cities, and we don't give a shit if you or your snooty "cosmopolitan" counterparts think we're behind the times when it comes to fashion. In fact, even bringing it up makes you sound incredibly superficial.

Glad you "liked" St. Louis, but you only experienced a tiny fraction of it.

Ah, I believe this might be the home of Larry Hosken. Anyways, I ?noticed? your contact information on a web site dealing with ?the? Dental Health Theatre in St Louis, and apparently I want to find out some information about this.

In reality, I want to find out where I can locate a very large toothbrush, 'cause I'm doing some things overseas, and teaching dental care. I want to develop a puppet ?next?to? the toothbrush. If you have information about where that can be found, [his contact information].

Quit yer complaining, the non-In Soo Shu Feng is quite good, actually, especially if you consider the fact that its main focus is Taiwanese rather than Korean food. If you ask for the House Special Chicken, I guarantee you that if you don't enjoy it, it's your problem, not theirs. With all due respect to Jill (her bands rocked and her writing tends to be really funny), she's going way overboard here, as she did in her Riverfront Times review of it - just because Shu Feng isn't this same restaurant she apparently deified doesn't make it a bad restaurant by ANY means.

It never ceases to amuse me that people who live in San Francisco somehow correlate the beauty of the typography with their own value.? St. Louis isn't, never was, and never will be San Francisco or New York ... even when it was the fourth largest city in the U.S.

I grew up in St. Louis, lived in Chicago, New York and Dallas (presently)?and all are fine.? I've visited San Francisco at least 8 to 10 days a month for a few years and many other times and found it delightful ... in spite of the attitudes of the inhabitants. ? New York is the center of the world. ? It's pulse is invigorating. What I like about New?Yorkers is their wit and their ultimate confidence ... they?wouldn't take the time to knock?another place; they just accept it or ignore it. ? Chicago is like New York except the people are nicer (Midwestern) and the city more manageable in size. In addition to those cities. ? I've also lived in Topeka Kansas ... small, insular ... and it was also fine. ? In all cases, I enjoyed myself both as a visitor and as a resident. ? Why? ? Because?all of the locations had positives .. and negatives. ? I?didn't try desperately to prove how "cool" (is that still used?) I am.? I just enjoyed it. ? People who don't look for the good and try soon hard to find the negative to?reinforce?their desire to be whatever - I live?(in San Francisco)?therfore I am (cool?) .. need to just enjoy.

When people ask me where I'm from, I always say, "I'm from St. Louis ... but I presently live in (fill in blank)."? You see, I'm very proud to be from a nice, midsize city with good values?and good people, some good restaurants, some cultural facilities .. in other words a little of a lot.? In those other cities mentioned above, you get?a lot of a lot. ? But it's like when a New Yorker asked me how I could possibly live in a city with only ONE MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM (not being a good enough fan to even know about the St. Louis Browns and the St. Louis Cardinals being in the city for close to 70 years and playing in the 1944 World Series).? I asked him, who do you root for the Yankees or the METS.? He said "The Yankees!"? I asked if he ever went to a Mets game.? He said "No!"? Then I wondered what was the difference.? He only had one team.? It's like having 10,000 restaurants in San Francisco. How many do you tend to frequent.? Probably 5 or 6 ... over and over again.

?If you don't like?St. Louis, we understand ... but then?St. Louisans?live here, you don't.? Hope you come back ... but only if your attitude changes.? Otherwise, you need to stay and enjoy San Francisco ... please!

It sounds to me like you did your best to avoid the great areas of St. Louis & did a lot of "vacationing" in questionable areas. That's like me going to San Francisco, seeing the Golden Gate Bridge, riding a street car, taking a long walk through the slums of the city while being annoyed with all of the homeless people in downtown SF, and then complaining about food when I obviously didn't choose a good restaurant to begin with. Don't get me wrong: San Francisco is a decent city, but comparing it to New York? Give me a break. America's older cities like St. Louis, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and New York have a longer history than SF does<<<Look it up. St. Louis was the 4th largest city in the United States at the turn of the 20th Century and boasts some of the greatest architecture in the United States from that time period. It amuses me that you didn't even visit downtown Clayton, Forest Park, the Botanical Gardens, the St. Louis History Museum, or other interesting St. Louis area places like the Great River Road that highlights the Mississippi River. And by the way, I've been to almost every one of the 50 largest cities in the United States, including San Francisco, so I know a good deal about what I'm talking about.

Noah

Well... As a grad of Wash-U, I have to say that you missed the beauty of the place. Before you judge, you should check out Graham Chapel and the buildings of the quad. It takes time to learn a place well enough to know its "secrets" and obviously you missed them. Wash-U's buildings are from the 1904 world's fair and an even older Seminary. Did you go to Forest Park? See the Art Museum? The Jewel Box? Hear a concert or opera at Powell Hall, Riverport or the Muny (home of the free seats for major Broadway productions!)? Did you visit the Science Center? The best art galleries are in Clayton and Ladue.

St. Louis has a great deal of culture, but it is spread out. You have to look for the fun. I really recommend that you find a couple of NATIVE Saint Louisians to take you around the city. It is a cool place.

Jeanne

Good news for St. Louis. I just got back from visiting my sister all of last week.

The woman who used to run Shu Feng has opened a new restaurant in the same strip mall. The food is just like the old Shu Feng. Tell your St. Louis friends! It was delicious.

Shu Feng is open once again, but with new owners. The food is okay, but not nearly as excellent as before.

================
In Soo Restaurant
8423 Olive Blvd.
St. Louis

314.997.7473
================

The card says they serve "Oriental Food". Hmm. Not sure what they mean exactly but it's damn tasty.

---
I see you went back to St. Louis in March and went to the City Museum. I went for the first time two Decembers ago. I loved it!

It's funny you took the pic of the ugly Natural Sport shoe boxes in the shoe room. Nope, I didn't design that box (yuck) -- but that is where I worked, Brown Shoe.

You may be interested to know that Shu Feng, the Chinese/Korean restaurant many of us St. Louisans hold in higher regard than our grandmas, has been reincarnated--in a storefront 2 doors down--as a place called Insoo. It is better than ever. The sinister entity currently known as Shu Feng still exists, however, and is to be avoided at all costs.

Jill Posey-Smith
Restaurant critic, St. Louis Riverfront Times

Just finished reading your web page about St Louis...and not really sure that your description of St Louis is accurate. I have lived there all of my life and no one I have ever met has ever referred to U-City as the next Greenwich Village or a So-Ho wannabe. U-City is just U-City home of Wash U and Fontbonne.

St Louis has a lot of wonderful restaurants perhaps your friends should have taken you down to the Hill to get some wonderful Italian food. Besides eating there are plenty of things to do and to visit. For the record...St Louis pizza is awesome. You should have tried the pizza before you said anything negative. St. Louis pizza has a very thin crust...but we like it that way!

Our Art & History Museum, Zoo both located in Forest Park are FREE...Bet you can't say that about many local Art Museums and Zoo's...free to visit works of art every day a year and not pay a dime. We have world class sports, universities, symphonies, gardens and many other attributes you failed to list. Do you have anything positive to say at all.

I guess if you wanted to see the city, perhaps you should have done a little less reading and found the real St. Louis yourself. Oh and the reason for the lawns is that the businesses were torn down and the City wanted to keep some natural areas for people to congregate in. There are a few outdoor malls that they hold events in like Kiener Plaza,

There are many more areas to visit that you missed...The Science Center, The Planetarium, The New and Old Cathedral(The New Cathedral houses that largest collection of Mosaics in the World), Union Station, Laumeir Sculpture Park, Powell Hall and the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra, St Louis Blues and Jazz music, and the list goes on and on.

Here is the web to a park page in St. Louis http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/parks/parks_div/descript.html#kiener

By the way the grassy area in front of the Old Courthouse that you have pictured on your web page (the view from the arch) is called Kiener Plaza...it is not a lawn. It was created as a park for the citizens and there are many functions held on "the lawn" as you identify it. They have sport rally's, races, music and lots of other events are held there. In fact the Old Courthouse is where the "Dred Scott" case was held. Lots of National History there. St Louis has many parks and the people of St Louis love them. In fact in many of the city parks they have free concerts in the parks on the weekends and on Monday nights. In Tower Grove Park, Francis Park and Carondelet Park to name a few.

I am sure St Louis was not your cup of tea. But if least if you are going to write about it...get the facts straight and from a person who has the facts.

Did you at least get to Ted Drewes???????

Well I am glad St Louis does not measure up to San Francisco, NY or any of the other larger cities...because then it just wouldn't be home.

peacefully living in a provel state of mind,
Carol

Thanks for the response!

The local's just call University City...U-City or the "Loop" I think people have a hard time describing U-City as it is different...:)

I would never call San Francisco "Frisco", as we get the same sort of thing with "St . Lou."...Ack!

Italian Food on the hill....If your friends want really good Italian Food...tell them to go to Charlie Gitto's House of Pasta and there is Cunnetto's House of Pasta. I had really good Carbonarasomewhere and I can't remember where. The local "Pasta House" Chain of Italian restaurants is sort of like Olive Garden with a provel cheese twist...I can see where some people would not like the overall provel cheese factor. At "Schnucks" and all the grocery stores you can get provel cheese that is put through a grinder to create a rope effect. People love this cheese on everything, you can find this cheese in all of the deli cases at the stores. It is used as a main staple in Italian Salads in STL. Just go to the deli counter-they will give ya a free sample. But really there are a lot of reasonable local restaurants that have decent food...Just remembered a few Italian places... Mama Campisi's House of Spaghetti and Zia's.

Pizza, if you like thick crusts...St Louis is not the place and like I said earlier...I could see where this would disappoint people. My entire family loves St Louis Pizza and there are a lot of us.

I will tell you a secret, I have relocated to Florida and I miss St. Louis pizza the most of all. I lived in STL for 33 years... and I miss my family.

I guess what I meant is experience it more first hand instead of relying on a travel book. I bought a guide for New Orleans two years ago and it was not up to date and the recommendations, well they make you wonder. I just ask the locals at every shop and place I visit -"What is it about your city that I should experience before I leave?"....and many times I get great leads...things that are off the beaten path so to speak.

Thanks for liking St Louis...I am not the official Cheerleader for the city or anything...I know St Louis has its problems just like any major city...but we try. But it makes me happy to know you enjoyed your stay...:)

You have to go to Ted Drewes while you are in town...the best frozen custard in all the land...Ever have a concrete? It is this really thick frozen custard ice cream...they can actually turn it over and no ice cream will fall out. The place is on Chippewa and open all year round, they also have a place on S. Grand. You have to get a Flying Dutchman...for more info... www.teddrewes.com

I love the Botanical Gardens-one of my fav places to visit. On Sunday's they usually have some sort of classical ensemble that plays...tickets are free via the local npr/classical station.

Oh and Mexican Food...St Louis has nothing like they have out west...We have the chain Mexican restaurants...but two local restaurants are Hacienda on Manchester in Rock Hill and Casa Gallardo(many locations) are all local in nature. Hacienda has a wonderful dessert called "empenadas"<sp> and they are tiny pies filled with strawberries and cream cheese...really tasty!. The best place for Mexican food that I have found has been in Phoenix/Scottsdale AZ...great stuff....had a white chocolate tamale...it was so nice.

Didn't mean to sound offensive in my earlier letter...I welcomed your views... but just enjoy St. Louis so much as it will always be home...and I miss it.

I have never been to San Francisco....But it is on my list! Can you give me some tips?

Thanks!
Carol

As a St. Louisan, I found your comments on St. Louis interesting (and I thought I'd point out that the picture of the bridge you have, the one whose color you liked, is if I'm not mistaken the Eads Bridge, although I'd check that with your friends at SLU).

And I have a picture that I took from the Arch that you're more than welcome to use if you'd like, provided that appropriate credit is provided. (And either way, you're more than welcome to look at it to see what you missed by not going up in the Arch).. it's at http://www.umr.edu/~mjr/stlouis.jpg

Anyway, I hope you get the chance to visit St. Louis again sometime.

Best wishes,
Matt "umrguy" Ryan